Over at BCC today implications of the Fall were vigorously debated on Mark Brown's post Women, Men, and the Fall. Mark invited readers to consider a quote by Elder Packer extolling the superior divine attributes of woman and whether her natural virtue mitigates the effects of fall and her proclivity to sin.
You all know I'm a live-and-let-live kind of person, so I surprise myself sometimes with my visceral reaction against breast implants, liposuction, facelifts, and other types of elective surgery. It's not only that I don't think they're safe, or that their cost could feed a small village for a year, or even the standard feminist argument against them. There might be a teeny bit of "you-didn't-earn-that-body-by-slaving-away-in-a-hot-gym" to it all.
Originally posted at Feminist Mormon Housewives.
On Sunday I was checking my facebook and noticed that a friend had taken the "What Kind of Boobs Do You Have?" quiz. Her result was: "your boobs are juicylicious, any guy would love to burst open your Hawian punch." Now you may wonder why, self-proclaimed feminist that I am, I didn't immediately dismiss such immature and patently mysogynist (not to mention misspelled) drivel and turn my attention to the health care crisis, or even read an article an article in Newsweek or a biography of Eleanor Roosevelt.
Oh no! Instead, I started to wonder what kind of boobs I had.
This was originally posted at the Juvenile Instructor.
I've been enthralled by the portrait of Mormon women painted by Edward W. Tullidge in his 1877 book The Women of Mormondom. He called them women of a new age, of new types of character, religious empire-founders, and even bestowed upon Mormon women the title "apostles." Of course, the term "apostle" when associated with the female sex was not, in the late 1800's, fraught with as much tension as it is today. Yet I was still interested to investigate the impulse which led Tullidge to employ this word when speaking of our nineteenth-century sisters.
You may have heard the story of Emma Smith desiring a blessing from the hands of her husband Joseph shortly before he was taken to jail at Carthage. Because time and opportunity did not permit, Joseph suggested that Emma write the best blessing that she could, and that he would sign it on his return. Joseph was killed on June 27, 1844, and never signed Emma's blessing. But still extant are the words of the blessing Emma wrote.
(BiV's contribution to International Women's Day)
Today I realized for the first time that I would be turning 50 this year with Mattel's Barbie, who was launched March 9th at the 1959 New York Toy Fair. I haven't yet embraced this milestone (I have until November to come to terms with it), but then, neither has she.
By now, those in the know have clicked on the link at the Dialogue journal website to read the free preview of Kevin Barney's article, "How to Worship our Heavenly Mother (Without Getting Excommunicated)." For quite a while I have been hearing about and greatly anticipating the appearance of this scholarly comparison of the Mormon Mother in Heaven with the female deity Asherah. And my readers will know of the great admiration I have for Kevin Barney's research, writing, and opinions. So it is with some regret that I feel compelled to point out some dangers and flaws in this piece.
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so I guess I shouldn't be put out that ARDIS TOTALLY STOLE MY IDEA. I've been planning to do a female edition of my guessing game, so here it is, and I hope my readers aren't too bored with it. Come on, everyone, see if you can guess who these famous female eyes belong to!
Last week I had a marvelous time visiting my sister in Boston and then attending the Exponent II retreat. I just got back this evening but I thought I'd share some of my pictures of the event. I intend to blog about some of the workshops, so check back!
While researching Church history for my last post over at Mormon Matters, I came across an interesting tidbit regarding our Mother Eve.
Early Church member Zebedee Coltrin tells a story about an experience he had with the Prophet Joseph while traveling to a conference in New Portage, Ohio. At one point, Joseph, with a far off look in his eyes, took Brother Coltrin and Oliver Cowdery by the arms and set out on a stroll. Coming to a scenic spot, Joseph suggested, "Let us pray." After each prayed in turn they lay down on their backs, the two men leaning against Joseph's outstretched arms. "Now brethren, we will see some visions," Joseph promised.
"The heavens gradually opened, and they saw a golden throne, on a circular foundation, something like a light house, and on the throne were two aged personages, having white hair, and clothed in white garments. They were the two most beautiful and perfect specimens of mankind he ever saw. Joseph said, "They are our first parents, Adam and Eve." Adam was a large, broad-shouldered man, and Eve as a woman, was as large in proportion." (Minutes, Salt Lake City School of the Prophets, October 11, 1883.)
I just had the most fascinating experience in a BYU student ward.
I'm visiting with my daughter in Provo, and I attended Church with her ward yesterday. After Sacrament Meeting, she urged me to attend her Social Relations class. It was taught by the Bishop's wife, and they were going to discuss the Temple. Several couples in the ward plan to be married by the end of the month, and some will be going on missions. Sister R took it upon herself to prepare them for this major event that they would soon be experiencing.
I knew things would be different when I saw that she had her temple packet with her on the table. Sister R gave the most amazing presentation I have ever seen. I found myself wishing that a video would be made and sent around to show all teachers of the Temple Prep class how it was done. She unapologetically described each part of the Temple experience, from the symbolism of entering past the first "gate" with your Temple recommend (which she waved in the air), to how to recover your new name if you forget it. She had some of the young men in the room squirming as she explained a relatively new policy that you could wear your bra under your garment top, or your underwear underneath the bottoms in the case of periods or yeast infections. Everything was presented in a faithful, testimony-building, no-nonsense way. The young people were enthralled. And what's more, she presented her remarks to the women.
Although the class consisted of an equal amount of college-aged young men and women, her remarks were completely female oriented. Continually she referred to your escort as "she," talked about the woman who would lay her hands on your head, discussing the authority she held, and the woman who would take you through the veil. Sister R's husband, the Bishop, who was sitting in the back of the room, stood several times to add to her remarks, and twice noted that, "for the men, of course, they will have a male escort," and similar clarifications.
This was a great object lesson to both men and women on how teaching directed to a particular gender tends to marginalize and silence the other. Try it! As an experiment next time you teach, style the lesson so that it is addressed entirely to the female gender. Does this make a difference in how males are included?
Optimally we will come closer to a style in our teaching which will include all of our audience, males and females, single and married, parents and childless, old and young. Let's strive for this ideal!
The panel on "Mormon Motherhood, Choice or Destiny" was a response by five women to Julie Beck's Conference talk, "Mothers Who Know," which was so controversial in the bloggernacle last October. I was interested to hear their thoughts on Julie Beck's official pronouncement on women's roles in the LDS Church. I thought Margaret Toscano's talk was particularly cogent--expressing dismay for the presentation by our General RS President of only one approved way to be a mother, but also for the dismissal by many LDS women of Julie Beck's words as a leader but not of Russell Ballard, or Russell Nelson's subsequent talks which basically presented the same view. Interestingly, the Bloggernacle's own fmhJanet presented the most defensive view of motherhood, though she did note the dangers of letting our children become our whole world. "It's too much for one person to stand," she said, "being someone's whole world."
If you want to hear more about what the speakers said, order the Sunstone tape, 'cause I lost my notes! But the most interesting part of the session were the comments following the speakers. As soon as moderator Janice Allred opened the floor for discussion, a woman leaped to her feet and marched to the microphone. She grabbed it off its stand and, agitated, stated, "I am so offended that I was not asked to be on this panel!" Not all LDS women's views had been represented, she explained. The panel had not expressed the views of the many Mormon women who feel their greatest work is in the home. She particularly targeted Margaret, questioning if she would be welcome in the Toscano home because she did not have a Masters degree or a PhD.
Another woman stood and expressed how alienated she felt in her LDS ward because of her decision not to have children. She related the many inappropriate questions that were asked of her and the condemnation that was placed upon her by her gospel sisters.
Sitting in the back row with the Zelophehad's Daughters, I marveled at the outpouring of emotion, not only at this session, but at the original talk given by Sister Beck. As was mentioned by the panel, this came from a wide range of women, from stay-at-home moms to the most radical. Its seems that SAHMs were overwhelmed by the image of perfection presented, which they felt they could never live up to. Working women saw the talk as presenting only one pattern of faithful womanhood. Nevertheless, the opposition to the talk has been perceived as being largely from feminists. Feminism has as its goal the championship of choice for all women to decide how they will structure their lives. It seems to me that among the mothers who stay at home, they cannot feel their choice is validated unless all women are urged to make that same choice.
How did you react to Julie Beck's conference talk? Why do you think this polarizing talk still has the power to stir up a hornet's nest of LDS women?
26 Mar 1903 - Joseph F. Smith told the Apostles "there would be no daughters of perdition" in the final judgment.
You may think it is a sign of my complete depravity that I am put out because women cannot become Sons of Perdition. But give me some time to explain, and you may see why.
Mormon doctrine teaches that those who are "sons of perdition" are those who had a sure and perfect knowledge of the truth, then voluntarily turned from it and committed the "sin unto death." The first requirement, then, to become part of this group is to have been members of the LDS Church, then to have the truth revealed to them with such sureness and clarity that there would be no doubt in their minds about the truthfulness of the Mormon gospel. Speaking of the sons of perdition, Joseph Fielding Smith taught that "before a man can sink to this bitterness of soul, he must first know and understand the truth with a clearness of vision wherein there is no doubt" (Doctrine of Salvation 1:49). Such clarity requires a confirming vision from heaven. Joseph Smith taught that to become a son of perdition, a person must "have the heavens opened unto him, and know God....He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.358).
After potential sons of perdition have had this sure knowledge manifested to them, they would then have to turn away from the Mormon Church, deny the truth, and commit the "unpardonable sin."
So why can't women become Sons (Daughters) of Perdition? Is there something about not having the Priesthood that makes a woman less able to have this sure knowledge of Christ? After all, in D&C 13:1 we learn that the Aaronic Priesthood holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and in D&C 84:19 we are told that the Melchizedek Priesthood contains the keys to the mysteries of the kingdom and the knowledge of God.
I'm just as positive as can be that many Mormon women will be pleased not to have the opportunity to become Daughters of Perdition. Our women leaders have assured us that we can partake of every blessing that is available to priesthood holders. But if this is true, then why is the converse not possible?
(I was going to write more on this topic, but a post just went up on Main Street Plaza on this subject, so I thought I'd get my ideas out there and we can continue the discussion in the comments. Have at it!)
This post is to those of you who are shocked by the headlines you are reading today saying that 31 of 53 of the YFZ girls abducted by Texas CPS ages 14 to 17 have children, are pregnant, or both. Attorneys on the scene are warning that the numbers are extremely unreliable and that those interested in the case should remain cautious about believing these media reports. The tally of women and children has changed almost daily over the past three weeks. Amanda Chisholm, who works for TRLA, said she would be surprised if the actual number of teenage girls who are pregnant or mothers is "anywhere near that high."
Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar admitted that the age of the girls was determined by their attorneys or by looking at the women. "I have seen them myself," he said, "and I don't see any that look like an adult to me."
"My clients told us they were put in a line and looked at," said attorney Julie Balovich. "So I know that is how some of the numbers happened."
Azar also did not know how many girls were pregnant, but acknowledged that it is a small number. In earlier reports, CPS said that three teenagers are pregnant. Salt Lake attorney Rod Parker, a spokesman for the FLDS, said that of the three, one teenager refused to take a pregnancy test, one is 18 and the other is 17.
One problem in determining the ages of the girls is that some women may be claiming to be minors in order to stay with their children. TRLA attorney Julie Balovich said one woman now deemed to be a teenager is a 24-year-old woman who is pregnant. FLDS member Willie Jessop contends the state's tally also includes a 28-year-old whom the state has listed as being 17.
Another problem in these tallies is that the state is using a list which has been compiled of 20 minors and young women who conceived their first child between the ages of 13 and 16. The list includes women who had children ten or more years ago. For example, one woman was 13 when she conceived a child who was born in 1997! Another woman was 14 when she conceived a child born in 2000--eight years ago. Some of the women conceived children in other states, or before the change in Texas law regarding the age of consent. An interesting point to me would be how the age of pregnancy of the FLDS has changed over time, or since the arrest of Warren Jeffs. Is the sect attempting to comply with the laws of the state?
A final consideration for many is the number that was released regarding the teenaged boys in custody. The media is reporting that while there are 53 girls between those ages there are only 17 boys. I am wondering why they are not including or mentioning the 25 adolescent boys who were taken away from the main group very early in this raid and placed on a boys' ranch. Perhaps there are other boys who are away working and are not "lost." This is another example of half-truths intended to mislead the public.
I am really getting so annoyed with this media hype, playing on the concern of Americans for abused children. I prefer to look at this in the light of a wider world view. Throughout the world and over time and cultures, girls who begin menarche are considered women. They begin to marry and bear children. It has been in the past 100 years only that we have decided that young girls should have more choice and should put off childbearing until later. As a feminist, I believe this is a good thing. But who is to say that it is the only true and proper choice? Some studies have shown that childbearing at younger ages is healthier and more optimal for infant and mother. I believe in the right of this group to choose their family patterns and customs. Teaching their children to submit is not abuse, it is a different lifestyle choice. There are many tenets of this faith which are clearly healthier and more moral than mainstream teachings. 
Whereas: DH never calls me by name any more, he now calls me "your mother." As in: "Where is your mother?" and "Did your mother make dinner yet?"
and
Whereas: I don't understand why men should be the ones to learn the power of resurrection and call people forth out of their graves, even if their wives are more interested in physics and chemistry and they are more interested in watching the Utah Jazz...
and
Whereas: I prefer to picture the Morning of the First Resurrection as Joseph Smith described it in our new Joseph Smith manual--"When we lie down we contemplate how we may rise in the morning; and it is pleasing for friends to lie down together, locked in the arms of love, to sleep and wake in each other’s embrace and renew their conversation."--rather than a familiar voice calling, "Is your mother ready to get up yet???"
and
Whereas: This seems to be a church teaching that is going the way of Kolob and one really doesn't hear it taught much any more...
When DH calls me out of the grave, will I answer?
(I really don't know whether I am more bothered by the teaching on LDS husbands calling their wives out of the grave, or by the disturbing feeling that doctrines I've been taught as a young person are now fading away and being lost in the mists of time. Alas! I find myself conflicted once more.)
Recently I was asked a few questions about Mormon feminist blogging, so I wrote down the following thoughts.
Mormon feminism has traditionally never had a place to go. We see quite a few feminists in the early Utah years, those who wrote in the Women's Exponent, agitated for women's right to vote, and staunchly defended the practice of polygamy. But these voices seemed to cease with the passage of the Edmunds-Tucker Act and the turn of the century. Until the 1950's Mormon women seemed satisfied with traditional roles as mothers and homemakers, giving their energies to service in the Church. The first public instance we see of feminism in the twentieth century was when many women rallied around Sonia Johnson to support the ERA. This ended badly for all concerned, since the Church took a firm stance against the ERA, thus putting feminism outside the pale of faithful Church membership. Sonia's fight turned into a personal battle, she was excommunicated and became involved in additional activities inconsistent with Church standards. Unfortunately, during that period, Mormon feminism was associated with Sonia, so Mormon women felt constrained to stay away from both feminism and activism. Feminist activism continued to remain underground for many years, manifesting itself occasionally during all-women retreats where, for example, a sympathetic priesthood holder might be persuaded to bless the sacrament on Sunday morning and women would pass it to each other. (How daring!) (That was sarcasm, by the way!) But feminists who spoke out continued to be excommunicated from the Church well into the '90's when the September Six incident occurred. The excommunication of Maxine Hanks was a particular blow for Mormon feminism. She is a feminist theologian who compiled and edited the book Women and Authority: Re-emerging Mormon Feminism (1992). She was excommunicated Sept. 19, 1993, ostensibly for this work (as was fellow contributor, Michael Quinn). Also particularly discouraging to Mormon feminists was the excommunication of Lavina Fielding Anderson, a feminist who did much work on exposing ecclesiastical abuse against women. The later excommunication of Margaret Toscano, who was also a well-known feminist and scholar on women's issues reinforced the stance of Church leadership against feminism. Because these excommunications were said to have been influenced not by local leadership, but by higher-ranking LDS leaders, the disciplinary actions were viewed as a strong message that feminism, and especially feminist activism was unacceptable for women who wished to maintain their Church standing.
I bring up all this history because I think it helps to explain the phenomenon of Mormon feminist blogging. In August of 2004 Lisa B* started the blog Feminist Mormon Housewives as a way to release her tensions over faithful Church membership and feminism. Ten years had gone by since the excommunications and very little feminist activism had been seen. But, because of this, the Church had not felt the need to take any public stances against it. The slate was clean.
Blogging proved to be the perfect medium to discuss feminist issues. First, the computer medium drew in younger women who were unaware of the past history of Mormon feminism and the possible danger of expressing their opinions. Second, women who may have hesitated to declare themselves as feminists felt comfortable participating in an anonymous venue. Finally, more liberal-minded women who were scattered among the wards and stakes of a worldwide church could at last exchange ideas and communicate with each other. Almost four years have passed, and now there are several blogs which can be said to embrace feminist Mormon issues, especially Feminist Mormon Housewives, Zelophehad's Daughters and the Exponent Blog. So far, the Church has not chosen to discourage this exchange of liberal ideas. Lisa and other feminist bloggers have slowly revealed their true identities by participating in Sunstone Symposia and giving public speeches, and have felt no repercussions. This is a major step for feminism in the Church.
As far as concrete, measurable things that feminist Mormon blogging has accomplished: I don't think blogging has affected Church policy in any way. Not yet. I am very skeptical that grass-roots movements are able to make any changes on such a strongly hierarchically-organized system as we have in the LDS Church. Additionally, I think that leaders at the top have only very, very recently become aware of the blogs and the subjects which are discussed here. I think the major way that blogging has supported feminists in the Mormon Church is the solidarity it gives them for thinking about ideas which have traditionally been discouraged in the Church. More LDS women are working outside of the home, which has happened independently of blogging. But blogging gives support and encouragement to these women when they do not feel it in the wards.
Another major accomplishment of feminist Mormon blogging is that it has strengthened other activist causes. For example, being "green" is often discussed on feminist Mormon sites, and many of the readers have been motivated to start living a more ecologically-based lifestyle. This is something which has never received Church-wide emphasis. A concrete example is Lisa's post "Who Needs a Toddler" on FMH where she says, "See, I keep a mason jar on the washer and I fill it with the lint, so I can compost it, because Artemis tells me I should, and sometimes I do try to live up to her shiny example." So a lot of us are composting and hearing about it and getting tips from our blogging. There's another recent post called "Eco-Friendliness: Cloth Napkins" by Artemis on FMH. Just one more instance of saving the planet I can recall at FMH is all the encouragement to use cloth bags when grocery shopping. The post "January C3 challenge" has comments showing the development of a consciousness of this issue on the part of feminist Mormon housewives!
One of the best examples I can give you is the October 07 peace march which FMH participated in. I think, if you want to know where feminist Mormon blogging is headed, this will give you an idea. As time passes, feminists are connecting through the blogs and getting together to support causes. One post describes a planned FMH quilt effort : "We will auction (ebay?) the quilt and 100% of the proceeds will be used to invest in Kiva microloans." And this year in her annual fund raising post, Lisa explained, "In the past I’ve taken down the button as soon as we’ve made enough to pay our server fees. This year I’m going to leave it up all day and any extra will be put into our fMh Kiva microloans."
I've concluded that blogging has given Mormon feminists a place to go. Our most radical ideas are not exactly welcome in Relief Society, and church leaders often feel uncomfortable with us and our causes. We're too few and far apart to make a difference without this unique way of communicating and coming together. We've just started to discover what blogging can mean to this demographic.
So, feminist Mormon bloggers, do you think the "blog" forum has accomplished anything? Has it made any difference in the Church or in the lives of Mormon women? What future do you see for feminism in the Church? Will blogging play a role?
My completely unsolicited opinion is that authorities should open up channels of communication whereby girls and women who would like to voluntarily leave this group can receive some support in doing so. Other than this, children should not be removed from their homes. "Indoctrination" which takes place among the FLDS is no worse, in my view, than children as young as 13 who are exposed to sex and violence through media, or given birth control at home or in school! What is happening in this case sets a dangerous precedent. Now read what a former FLDS member has to say about this situation:
"THESE PEOPLE NEED A VOICE!
I left the FLDS three years ago when I was 23. I had a very happy childhood free from television, drugs, and abuse. These are some of the things I personally witnessed:
When a girl thought she was ready to get married, she would tell her father that she was ready to move on. Her father would turn her over to the prophet (Rulon or Warren Jeffs) to be placed in marriage. I saw Rulon many times tell the girl that she needed to be 18 before she was married, and I saw some girls ask to be married anyway, and sometimes he would give in to their request. It was not a common thing to see a girl younger than 15 get married, but if they did, it was always the result of her father putting a lot of pressure on Rulon or Warren to do something about their daughter. No one was ever forced. I saw several girls tell the prophet that she didn't want to marry so and so and that was the end of it (I know this because word really got around). Rulon and Warren always asked a girl if she had anyone in mind before she was placed with someone. Sometimes they would ask for an older guy with several wives already.
You've got to realize that the only thing these girls really lived for was getting married and having children. They do not have the same mindset as your typical teenage girl. Some were rebellious and wild teenagers sure, but 90% of the girls I grew up with only wanted to get married and have children. At the same time, 90% of the men didn't want their daughters to leave home and were very protective of them. My father wept when my older sister got married (she was 19) but he knew it would make her happy.
As for the men. 95% of the men I knew were honorable and trustworthy. They had beautiful families that loved them and would do anything for them. "by their fruits you shall know them". I challenge anyone to look at those children in Texas and honestly say "they are a product of pedophiles and immorality". An example of immorality would be someone that advertises their body by wearing next to nothing, uses foul language, uses drugs and exhibits no self control. You will not find that with these people. Sex is not even in their vocabulary. Literally.
I personally know every man on that Ranch in Texas. Search the world over, you will not find men more dedicated, more committed, and more focused on living in Peace and living their religion than within that group. They do not care what anyone else does, they only want to live their religion.
You should also note, half of the children raised within the FLDS, end up leaving on their own free will and choice. 95% of them you will never hear from again. 5% seem to spread rumor and false accusations everywhere they turn either because they are lonely and need someone or something to blame, or because they really were hurt or abused and somehow think it's the church's fault.
As for this raid in Texas here are some interesting facts:
1)There is only one Dale Barlow over the age of 40 within the FLDS. This man was convicted of fathering a child with a 16 year old two years ago. He has been on probation ever since and is not allowed to leave the state of Arizona except to report to his probation officer in St. George, UT. Authorities know where he is and he has not yet been arrested. (There is another member whose name is spelled Dell but he is in his late 60's)
2)There is absolutely no physical evidence that this 16 year old who supposedly called in to report abuse even exists. Anyone could have made that call.
3)Anyone that thinks there is something wrong with having a bed in a temple that has disturbed linen and a female hair, is assuming WAY too much.
4)If I was a four year old child and I was taken away from my loving mother and father, I would be confused and hurt and would probably find a way of seeing how it was my fault.
5)The media keeps saying that 100 something women left on their own? They simply refuse to let their children go without them.
6)There are three sides to every news story and so far, everyone is getting only two. People that have left and are bitter, and people that are jumping to conclusions. I would like to be the third because I know these people, I am a product of these people and I believe they should be understood and left alone.
I left on my own accord because I was standing in the way. I wasn't ready to give up material things and I didn't believe Warren Jeffs was a prophet. I drew my own conclusion, and every member of that church is fully capable of doing the same if they so choose." austlittlebeast@yahoo.com
Yearning for Zion
by Warren Jeffs
Heavenly beings have come to direct the work of the fulness of times:
To bring to pass Zion, the Lord’s pure in heart, a people perfected in Christ.
Who will be Zion, filled with his love, laboring now with the hope
Of a glorious day, when Zion shall rise, and the words of the prophets unfold.
When Zion shall flourish upon the hills, the wilderness blossoming fair as the rose,
When Zion comes singing with songs of great joy
With praise and thanksgiving assembles to worship our Lord
Oh, Zion!
Put on thy beautiful garments,
Which are the powers and gifts of his Spirit in you,
Draw from the heavens the almighty power to build and redeem again Zion!
Oh, hearken all Israel!
Live for the promise of God.
Our Savior shall dwell in our midst
For the household of faith he will stretch forth his arm
And bring forth the redemption of Zion.
Imagine the people of Enoch of old, trained in the order of heaven
A beautiful city the Lord called his own and forever made his abode
Coming to join with the Zion on earth when finally the earth finds its rest
A kingdom established in celestial laws, a people the Lord can accept
A New Jerusalem it will be, a land of refuge, a city of peace
Upon every dwelling the Lord shall create
A cloud for a covering, a flaming
It sure is a good thing they changed that Temple Recommend Question--you know the one I'm talking about: Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? They used to ask you if you sympathized with such groups, and I always had to answer "yes." (Never kept me from getting my recommend, btw.)
I do sympathize with fundamentalist groups, now let me tell you why.
That's why I've followed with interest the building of the YFZ (Yearning for Zion) compound in Eldorado, Texas. (Pics here.) Even the name of the place breaks my heart. It's taken from a song written by FLDS leader Warren Jeffs. I am disposed to believe that this is a group of people who yearns for Zion. They are willing to put their earthly lives and interests on the line for their religious beliefs. One member writes: "I wonder why people think Plural Marriage is a sin. I know for myself that it is a correct principle and must be lived to attain the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kingdom. I also know that most people I have known that enter the principle, do not live it correctly. So it is not for everyone. So why is it so bad to some people, for a man to claim two women as wives, take care of them and treat them as wives in every sense of the word, and for some reason it is not quite as bad for a man to have a wife and a mistress? Or is it? To me, THAT is awful."
"I don't know of a better reason, to live it, than that it is a commandment of God. If is was not a commandment of God, and that was my desire (to keep the commandments of God) then I am sure I would not choose to. I believe that every person must live according to the light and knowlege they have, in order to come to God at the Judgment day and have no regrets."
"You have been fed a steady diet of bull puckey for long enough, why don't you try something else, your taste buds would enjoy it I'm sure. A strong mind is one that thinks for itself, not believes every malcontent filthy liar and every bit of media spin. Nobody, and I mean nobody is being raped!! I promise you that the 6 month old babies aren't being raped. I know of one 14 year old marriage, but in general the girls are older than that, you can keep bringing that up for your purpose of sensationalism as long as you'd like, it still doesn't make it the truth. I also know that every person is given a choice or asked if they are willing, they are not forced into the marriages, and you can go ahead and give us your drivel about brainwashing all you want to, I know I've been there, I wasn't brain washed, I loved what I lived... I made a choice, I was asked and I made that choice, so you will say I was brainwashed. Hogwash. Free will and choice, and a beautiful choice at that, I would way rather be married to a wonderful man that has matured and mellowed, than a young know it all buck... The people of the United States are the ones who are brain washed, with all the TV, sports... Only the Lord God of Heaven has the right to judge us, you don't and I don't have the right to judge you. The United States of America is supposed to be where you can practice what you believe..."
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